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  4. <title>front_page</title>
  5. <description>Front page of site</description>
  6. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision</link>
  7. <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2025 09:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
  8. <ttl>180</ttl>
  9. <item>
  10. <title>Free Vent For Api 650 Tank - Bug Screen / Bird Screen Requirement</title>
  11. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32651-free-vent-for-api-650-tank-bug-screen-bird-screen-requirement/</link>
  12. <description><![CDATA[<p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">Hello everyone, I have used this forum to get answers about chemical engineering problems. This is the first time I am posting here; therefore, I apologize in advance for any misunderstanding.</p>
  13. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  14. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">I use API 2000 to calculate the free vent size of a firewater storage tank design with respect to API 650. Firstly, I define the required flow rate according to tank dimensions, inlet/outlet flow rates, and other specifications. Secondly, I calculate the required free area with respect to API 2000 equation 25 by taking a discharge coefficient of 0.6. The result shows that 11.3 inches in diameter is required, but I choose a 14-inch-diameter free vent. This part is clear for me.</p>
  15. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  16. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">​Since this is a water tank, insects may enter the tank. Therefore, I wanted to put a bug screen on the free vent in order to prevent this situation. This is where my question begins.</p>
  17. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  18. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">1) Firstly, API 650 section 5.8.5.5 defines bird screen requirements with a minimum 19 mm opening size. This size is applicable for the specific location I am from with respect to local regulations; however, adding a bird screen is actually reducing the outlet area and increasing pressure drop. I have calculated that area reduction is not important for 14" pipe since 11.3" free area is required. However, I could not calculate the pressure drop increase because of the screen. Can you guys suggest any relations or references?</p>
  19. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  20. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">2) Secondly, I investigated bug screen mesh sizes. I came to the conclusion that 20x20 mesh would be sufficient. However, this would result in 50% less open area for the free vent. So I have two questions about bug screens:</p>
  21. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  22. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">2a) Should I increase the free vent diameter so that a 20x20 mesh would have 11.3 inches of free area?</p>
  23. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  24. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">2b) Should I decrease the discharge coefficient of 0.6, since there is a flow restriction at the mesh? I could not find a relation between mesh sizes and discharge coefficients in my hydraulic calculation books.</p>
  25. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  26. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">3) Lastly, I tried to look up vendor documents. They put a bug screen/bird screen as an option for PSVs/PVVs/free vents. However, I have not come across a sizing criterion that changes according to this screen requirement.&nbsp;</p>
  27. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  28. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">3a) As a result, I think vendor designs do not require specific design changes according to bird/bug screens. Is this perspective applicable?</p>
  29. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  30. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">3b) As a result, I think vendors may include bird/bug screens in their overpressure scenarios, meaning that they may indicate 50% overpressure because of bird/bug screens. Is this point of view applicable?</p>
  31. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">&nbsp;</p>
  32. <p  style="color:rgb(103,108,116);font-family:'Segoe UI', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Fira Sans', 'Droid Sans', sans-serif;font-size:15px;background-color:rgb(252,252,252);">Thanks in advance. <img src='https://www.cheresources.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /></p>
  33. ]]></description>
  34. <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2025 09:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
  35. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32651-free-vent-for-api-650-tank-bug-screen-bird-screen-requirement/</guid>
  36. </item>
  37. <item>
  38. <title>Rupture Disc Failure Well Below Max Pressure</title>
  39. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32650-rupture-disc-failure-well-below-max-pressure/</link>
  40. <description><![CDATA[<p>Hi Folks,</p>
  41. <p>&nbsp;</p>
  42. <p>I’m troubleshooting a puzzling safety-device failure and would appreciate the community’s insight.</p>
  43. <p>&nbsp;</p>
  44.  
  45. Plant & Duty
  46. <ul>
  47. <li>
  48. <p><strong>Unit:</strong> Continuous deodoriser for palm oil (7 horizontal vessels, vacuum stripping).</p>
  49. </li>
  50. <li>
  51. <p><strong>Heating medium:</strong> HP steam loop (~50 bar g @ 240 – 260 °C) from a natural-circulation boiler.</p>
  52. </li>
  53. <li>
  54. <p><strong>Rupture disc:</strong> REMBE <strong>BT-KUB-1</strong>, DN25, Inconel®, rated 95 bar g @ 298 °C (batch 2202109). Installed upstream of the safety valve on the boiler outlet; vent stub rises ~4 m, then to atmosphere.</p>
  55. </li>
  56. <li>
  57. <p><strong>Transmitter:</strong> 54 PI 240 (0 – 100 bar g, 1 s scan rate).</p>
  58. </li>
  59. </ul>
  60.  
  61. Failure history
  62. <div>
  63. <div>
  64.  
  68. Date
  70. Operating pressure when disc burst
  72. Expected burst
  74. Notes
  80. 22 Jun 2025
  82. <strong>20.6 bar g</strong>
  84. 95 bar g
  86. Header temp 189 °C; no PI spike recorded.
  90. Dec 2024 (similar case)
  92. ≈ 25 bar g
  94. 95 bar g
  96. Same disc model & location.
  99.  
  100. <div>
  101. <div><span></span></div>
  102. </div>
  103. </div>
  104. </div>
  105. <p>Trend data show repeated shutdown sequences where pressure falls to the transmitter’s low cut-off (≈ 0.3 bar g) for 6 – 18 h, then ramps slowly back to 60 – 70 bar g during startup.</p>
  106. <p>&nbsp;</p>
  107.  
  108. Two hypotheses
  109. <ol>
  110. <li>
  111. <p><strong>Vacuum-induced low-cycle fatigue</strong></p>
  112. <ul>
  113. <li>
  114. <p>During cooldown the closed steam circuit pulls near-full vacuum (transmitter can’t read below 0 bar g).</p>
  115. </li>
  116. <li>
  117. <p>The reverse-acting dome flexes inward; next startup reverses the load to +70 bar g.</p>
  118. </li>
  119. <li>
  120. <p>After a dozen cycles the burst point drifts down to ~20 bar g and the disc finally opens.</p>
  121. </li>
  122. <li>
  123. <p>Evidence: identical pressure cycles every shutdown; no collateral pipe damage; fracture surface shows beach-marks.</p>
  124. </li>
  125. </ul>
  126. </li>
  127. <li>
  128. <p><strong>Single water-/steam-hammer spike</strong></p>
  129. <ul>
  130. <li>
  131. <p>Condensate in the 4 m vent stub is accelerated by incoming steam, creating a very short 100 + bar pulse that the PI tag misses.</p>
  132. </li>
  133. <li>
  134. <p>The disc ruptures cleanly at the spike, PI plot only captures the 20 bar tail.</p>
  135. </li>
  136. <li>
  137. <p>Evidence: some startup traces show 30–50 bar oscillations; hammer in similar lines has reached 5–10 × design pressure in literature.</p>
  138. </li>
  139. </ul>
  140. </li>
  141. </ol>
  142.  
  143. My questions to the forum
  144. <ol>
  145. <li>
  146. <p><strong>Have you seen reverse-acting discs derate by &gt;70 % purely from vacuum/pressure cycling?</strong> How many cycles did it take?</p>
  147. </li>
  148. <li>
  149. <p><strong>Can a short hammer pulse really shear a KUB-type disc without leaving dents or pipe-support damage nearby?</strong></p>
  150. </li>
  151. </ol>
  152. <p><strong>Thanks in advance for your thoughts!</strong></p>
  153. <div id='attach_wrap' class='clearfix'>
  154. <h4>Attached Thumbnails</h4>
  155. <ul>
  157. <li class=''>
  158. <a class='resized_img' rel='lightbox[134243]' id='ipb-attach-url-17524-0-24004600-1751639671' href="http://www.cheresources.com/invision/uploads/monthly_07_2025/post-371484-0-93977600-1751448626.png" title="Screenshot 2025-07-02 105501.png - Size: 288.86KB"><img itemprop="image" src="http://www.cheresources.com/invision/uploads/monthly_07_2025/post-371484-0-93977600-1751448626_thumb.png" id='ipb-attach-img-17524-0-24004600-1751639671' style='width:250;height:87' class='attach' width="250" height="87" alt="Screenshot 2025-07-02 105501.png" /></a>
  159.  
  160.  
  161. </li>
  163. </ul>
  164. </div><div id='attach_wrap' class='clearfix'>
  165. <h4>Attached Files</h4>
  166. <ul>
  168. <li class='attachment'>
  169. <a href="https://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=17525" title="Download attachment"><img src="https://www.cheresources.com/invision/public/style_extra/mime_types/pdf.gif" alt="Attached File" /></a>
  170. &nbsp;<a href="https://www.cheresources.com/invision/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=17525" title="Download attachment"><strong>2025.06.22_5400_HDK-Berstscheibe_Bilder_002 (1).pdf</strong></a> &nbsp;&nbsp;<span class='desc'><strong>3.05MB</strong></span>
  171. &nbsp;&nbsp;<span class="desc lighter">2 downloads</span>
  172. </li>
  174. </ul>
  175. </div>]]></description>
  176. <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2025 09:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
  177. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32650-rupture-disc-failure-well-below-max-pressure/</guid>
  178. </item>
  179. <item>
  180. <title>Distillation Column Top Pressure</title>
  181. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32645-distillation-column-top-pressure/</link>
  182. <description><![CDATA[Dear all, <br>
  183. <br>
  184. I would like to understand Distillation Column Top Pressure and Pressure in Reflux drum for total condenser. (Debutanizer Column)<br>
  185. <br>
  186. Q1. At the top tray where liquid and Vapor are leaving, the top pressure is maintained by the liquid mixture leaving the top tray through its equilibrium Vapor pressure or any impact of Vapor leaving the tray on the top column pressure?<br>
  187. <br>
  188. Q2. Once the Vapor gets condensed and gets collected at the top, my reflux drum pressure is also found to be almost same? The pressure in the reflux drum again is due to the liquid mixture Equilibrium vapor pressure? <br>
  189. <br>
  190. Q3. I would like to understand, apart from normal flow pressure loss, why normally distillation column top Vapor condensation doesn't bring down the pressure in reflux drum? How to understand it? <br>
  191. <br>
  192. Q4. How to understand the pressure concept for any random tray in the column? If liquid Vapor pressure is what is causing pressure, bottom trays contain heavier and the equilibrium liquid vapor pressure should drop due to heaviers in the liquid mixture, but in reality pressure profile is like high at the bottom, from my understanding, it is high due to high temperature of the heavier mixture which has created sufficient equilibrium Vapor pressure more than the light liquid mixture Equilibrium vapor pressure at the top? <br>
  193. <br>
  194. Kindly guide me. Love to understand the things properly instead of feeling or saying, that is how it is or it works.]]></description>
  195. <pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2025 19:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
  196. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32645-distillation-column-top-pressure/</guid>
  197. </item>
  198. <item>
  199. <title>Htri，</title>
  200. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32642-htri，/</link>
  201. <description>htri，The calculated height under the inlet nozzle was limited to 30% of the shell diameter.what is meaning 。</description>
  202. <pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2025 04:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
  203. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32642-htri，/</guid>
  204. </item>
  205. <item>
  206. <title>Packaging And Gas Velocity In Packed Column</title>
  207. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32641-packaging-and-gas-velocity-in-packed-column/</link>
  208. <description><![CDATA[<p><span  style="font-size:18px">Good day to everyone, I am designing an absorption column to remouve methanol from a CO2 stream at 50 bar and 35°C with water.<br>
  209. I have no experience regarding absorption columns, so I would like to ask you for two pieces of advice:</span></p>
  210. <ul>
  211. <li><span  style="font-size:18px">generally what velocity should the gas have inside the column (I just need the order of magnitude)?</span></li>
  212. <li><span  style="font-size:18px">what filling do you recommend? Are IMTPs okay?</span></li>
  213. </ul>
  214. <p>
  215. <span  style="font-size:18px">Thanks,<br>
  216. Cristiano</span></p>
  217. ]]></description>
  218. <pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2025 07:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
  219. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32641-packaging-and-gas-velocity-in-packed-column/</guid>
  220. </item>
  221. <item>
  222. <title><![CDATA[Recommended Installation Location For &#34;pressure High&#34; Interloc]]></title>
  223. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32639-recommended-installation-location-for-pressure-high-interlock-instrument-on-distillation-column/</link>
  224. <description><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
  225. <p>I am seeking expert advice on the optimal location for a high-pressure switch/transmitter (PAH) that serves as a safety interlock for a distillation column, typically to cut the heat supply to the reboiler.</p>
  226. <p>Based on my understanding, the two primary candidate locations are:</p>
  227. <ol>
  228. <li><strong>Column Top:</strong> In the overhead vapor line or on the reflux drum vapor space.</li>
  229. <li><strong>Column Bottom:</strong> Near the reboiler or in the bottom liquid line.</li>
  230. </ol>
  231. <p>My questions are:</p>
  232. <ul>
  233. <li><strong>Which location is generally preferred as the primary high-pressure trip point and why?</strong></li>
  234. <li>How does the choice of location depend on the specific overpressure scenario we are protecting against? For example:
  235. <ul>
  236. <li>For a <strong>condenser failure</strong> or <strong>blocked vapor outlet</strong>, is a top-side sensor always superior for faster detection?</li>
  237. <li>For a <strong>reboiler control failure</strong> (runaway heating) or <strong>blocked bottoms outlet</strong>, is a bottom-side sensor more effective?</li>
  238. </ul>
  239. </li>
  240. <li>Is it a common design practice to install <strong>high-pressure interlocks at both the top and bottom</strong> of the column for comprehensive protection?</li>
  241. <li>What is the standard industry practice &nbsp;for this specific safety-critical interlock?</li>
  242. </ul>
  243. <p>Thank you for sharing your experience and insights.</p>
  244. ]]></description>
  245. <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 07:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
  246. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32639-recommended-installation-location-for-pressure-high-interlock-instrument-on-distillation-column/</guid>
  247. </item>
  248. <item>
  249. <title>Best Practices For Handling 50% Hf – Equipment Failures Issue</title>
  250. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32638-best-practices-for-handling-50-hf-–-equipment-failures-issue/</link>
  251. <description><![CDATA[<p><strong>Hello Everyone,</strong><br>
  252. &nbsp;</p>
  253. <p>Glad to connect&nbsp;<br>
  254. &nbsp;</p>
  255. <p>We are currently working with the storage and transfer of <strong>dilute hydrofluoric acid (50% by weight)</strong>. However, we often face failures in equipment, valves, and instrumentation due to its highly corrosive nature.<br>
  256. &nbsp;</p>
  257. <p>I would be grateful if you could share your insights on how to handle such a corrosive fluid effectively, without compromising equipment integrity or product quality.<br>
  258. <br>
  259. we&nbsp; already use the PTFE coated&nbsp; pipe line /valves/equipment.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
  260. ]]></description>
  261. <pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2025 04:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
  262. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32638-best-practices-for-handling-50-hf-–-equipment-failures-issue/</guid>
  263. </item>
  264. <item>
  265. <title>Design Capacity Of Hydrogen Pullet During Hydroprocessing Units Upset</title>
  266. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32637-design-capacity-of-hydrogen-pullet-during-hydroprocessing-units-upset/</link>
  267. <description><![CDATA[Dears ,<br>
  268. I want to design Hydrogen Pullet capacity during Hydroprocessing units upset .Currently we have two hydrogen plant production with total capacity 20 TPH and supply to diesel unit approximately 5 TPH and Hydrocraker unit approximately 15 TPH .During any upset of these unit Hydrogen will go to flare . I want to design hydrogen pullet to store this hydrogen and can be used again . Please can you help <br>
  269. <br>
  270. Thanks ]]></description>
  271. <pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2025 04:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
  272. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32637-design-capacity-of-hydrogen-pullet-during-hydroprocessing-units-upset/</guid>
  273. </item>
  274. <item>
  275. <title>Hello， Design Of Natural Gas Liquefaction Processes.</title>
  276. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32635-hello，-design-of-natural-gas-liquefaction-processes/</link>
  277. <description>Dear all, I am in need of a technical manual focused on the design of natural gas liquefaction processes. Any help would be greatly appreciated</description>
  278. <pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
  279. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32635-hello，-design-of-natural-gas-liquefaction-processes/</guid>
  280. </item>
  281. <item>
  282. <title>Three Phase Seperator Modification</title>
  283. <link>https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32633-three-phase-seperator-modification/</link>
  284. <description><![CDATA[<p>It is often observed while modification of Three phase Seperators due to carryover of water in Hydrocarbon liquid, the weir is extended towards Lighter liquid i.e hydrocarbon side of the vessel but its weir height is reduced post this change. Any logic to reduce weir height please?</p>
  285. <p>&nbsp;</p>
  286. <p>Attached the reference drawing for better understanding.</p>
  287. ]]></description>
  288. <pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2025 16:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
  289. <guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.cheresources.com/invision/topic/32633-three-phase-seperator-modification/</guid>
  290. </item>
  291. </channel>
  292. </rss>

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